Annie was recently interviewed by Katelyn Michals, creator of MindBody Mastery podcast. Listen as Katelyn interviews Annie Grace about her own journey to recovery. Annie shares with Katelyn, how she applied Dr. John Sarno’s methods and trained her unconscious mind to change her relationship with alcohol and how “This Naked Mind” was created using this method.

Episode Links:
MindBody Mastery podcast
Healing Back Pain by Dr. John Sarno
The Great Pain Deception by Steve Ozanich
The Alcohol Experiment
The Easy Way to Control Alcohol by Allen Carr
The Easy Way to Stop Smoking by Allen Carr
Liminal Thinking by Dave Gray
The Work of Byron Katie

Download EP:95 Transcript

MindBody Mastery

I had the opportunity recently to be interviewed on a woman’s podcast. Her name is Katelyn Michals, and she calls herself a Mind Body Mentor, and she actually has a podcast called the MindBody Mastery podcast, it is all built on her own healing experience with Dr. Sarno’s work, and it was a beautiful podcast and amazing experience, and I really just enjoyed it so much I asked her if I could take the recording and share it with all of you, so I hope you enjoy this as much as I did and really get something out of it.

The Mind Body Syndrome

Why am I talking about alcohol today? Why did I bring on Annie? This is a chronic pain podcast, right. Well, TMS, or tension myoneural syndrome, or the mind body syndrome rather, is a widely encompassing kind of umbrella diagnosis, where it can include addiction in there as the same things are happening with addiction as are with chronic pain. With chronic pain, most people who are going through that, are unconsciously, so you’re not even cognizant of this fact, but you’re addicted to fear.

Pain Triggers Fear

It’s hard not to be, because pain immediately triggers that fear, because we think to ourselves, “Oh my gosh, is this going to last forever? When will this go away? I can’t sit on a couch any more. I can’t do this, I can’t do that. I’m going to really cut back on my exercise.” Fear, fear, fear, fear, fear. With alcohol, you’re addicted to the drink instead, and a lot of times we’re addicted to the drink because it seems to calm down our monkey mind for just a moment, and for a lot of us, it also seems to curb our pain.

No Blame

Annie talks in her book about why that ends up not working, and how it seems to do all those things in the moment, and if you wake up the next day and you immediately have some regrets or you weren’t sure how you had three too many, or your muscles are hurting because you just slept for 12 hours and you missed your meeting at 9 AM. All of those things lead to more guilt and shame and emotional turmoil. Because it’s hard to control. It’s a highly addictive substance.

What I love about Annie’s approach is that it doesn’t point a finger at anybody and say, “You’re an alcoholic, you have a problem.”

It more so acknowledges the fact that alcohol is a highly addictive substance and we’re all susceptible if we start, and so her book is life changing, so if you’ve ever had the thought like, “I should really curb my alcohol use for a month,” or whatever, I would check out her work.

No Fear

It kind of takes the fear out of the whole process of giving alcohol up, which is exactly what happened to me when I read Dr. Sarno’s book. It was that, you know, like I was afraid of my spinal structures getting further injured. I was afraid of sitting on a soft surface. I was afraid of sleeping without a bolster under my knees. His book, the first thing I noticed was like, oh my gosh, he’s one by one debunking all of my fears. Annie accomplishes that same mind body mastery when it comes to alcohol.


Her book actually uses the concepts put forth by Dr. John Sarno to essentially like reprogram your unconscious mind in a way that can help you to break free from alcohol. If you’re someone who finds that alcohol has maybe taken on a bigger role in your life than you would like, then this episode is for you. Annie also has an online course where she takes you step-by-step through this unconscious reprogramming, as well as a podcast which is also called This Naked Mind, where she answers listener questions, and also interviews folks who have had their own personal recovery stories as a result of her work. Annie, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me today.

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Special music thank you to the Kevin MacLeod Funkorama (
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